I think the easiest way to present this, at least firstly, (and I suppose the laziest, er, most laid-back, is to quote a comment I just posted at Huffpo at Arianna's latest post on fearlessness.

" 
Everyone - read this column by Sam Harris in the L.A. Times 091806 - He says what the green p.c. progressives have been afraid to say. However exaggerated the blue/orange and imo greedy, cynical - I won't rant on - Bushco makes the threat, it's real, not a gross misinterpretation by blue simplistic categorizing. Blue/orange (Bush admin.) recognizes red/blue (fund. Islamic jihad)as less developed, thus more evil/devilish (to it). Irony that Chavez called Bush the devil this morning at the U.N. Several different levels and mixing therin and vectors and darts abounding lol! As they say, Boy, do we need second level NOW!! quote ----- http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-harris18sep18,0,1897169.s... By: April on September 18, 2006 at 08:25pm April - Thanks for the link to this very important article. I think Harris is brave and says some very important things about the "blind spots" of current liberalism/progressvism. The answer to the problem of relativistic pluralism (which is the fault that Harris clearly sees in the movement/thought-meme-level) is this kind of pluralism that refuses to make distinctions of development and complexity, fearing old insurgece of imperialism. The answer to this is Integral Pluralism, as introduced by Ken Wilber. (www.kenwilber.com). His new book "Integral Spirituality" due out in the fall will have a lot on it. Crucial awareness at this confused time on the planet. unquote ------- It's hard not to sound like a commercial when you're in commercial-land USA lol.

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"When the two become as one, then shall ye enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

Causal master J.C. (The Gnostic Gospels)

Thanks...here's the article:

Head-in-the-Sand Liberals

TWO YEARS AGO I published a book highly critical of religion, "The End of Faith." In it, I argued that the world's major religions are genuinely incompatible, inevitably cause conflict and now prevent the emergence of a viable, global civilization. In response, I have received many thousands of letters and e-mails from priests, journalists, scientists, politicians, soldiers, rabbis, actors, aid workers, students — from people young and old who occupy every point on the spectrum of belief and nonbelief.

This has offered me a special opportunity to see how people of all creeds and political persuasions react when religion is criticized. I am here to report that liberals and conservatives respond very differently to the notion that religion can be a direct cause of human conflict.

This difference does not bode well for the future of liberalism.

Perhaps I should establish my liberal bone fides at the outset. I'd like to see taxes raised on the wealthy, drugs decriminalized and homosexuals free to marry. I also think that the Bush administration deserves most of the criticism it has received in the last six years — especially with respect to its waging of the war in Iraq, its scuttling of science and its fiscal irresponsibility.

But my correspondence with liberals has convinced me that liberalism has grown dangerously out of touch with the realities of our world — specifically with what devout Muslims actually believe about the West, about paradise and about the ultimate ascendance of their faith.

On questions of national security, I am now as wary of my fellow liberals as I am of the religious demagogues on the Christian right.

This may seem like frank acquiescence to the charge that "liberals are soft on terrorism." It is, and they are.

A cult of death is forming in the Muslim world — for reasons that are perfectly explicable in terms of the Islamic doctrines of martyrdom and jihad. The truth is that we are not fighting a "war on terror." We are fighting a pestilential theology and a longing for paradise.

This is not to say that we are at war with all Muslims. But we are absolutely at war with those who believe that death in defense of the faith is the highest possible good, that cartoonists should be killed for caricaturing the prophet and that any Muslim who loses his faith should be butchered for apostasy.

Unfortunately, such religious extremism is not as fringe a phenomenon as we might hope. Numerous studies have found that the most radicalized Muslims tend to have better-than-average educations and economic opportunities.

Given the degree to which religious ideas are still sheltered from criticism in every society, it is actually possible for a person to have the economic and intellectual resources to build a nuclear bomb — and to believe that he will get 72 virgins in paradise. And yet, despite abundant evidence to the contrary, liberals continue to imagine that Muslim terrorism springs from economic despair, lack of education and American militarism.

At its most extreme, liberal denial has found expression in a growing subculture of conspiracy theorists who believe that the atrocities of 9/11 were orchestrated by our own government. A nationwide poll conducted by the Scripps Survey Research Center at Ohio University found that more than a third of Americans suspect that the federal government "assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East;" 16% believe that the twin towers collapsed not because fully-fueled passenger jets smashed into them but because agents of the Bush administration had secretly rigged them to explode.

Such an astonishing eruption of masochistic unreason could well mark the decline of liberalism, if not the decline of Western civilization. There are books, films and conferences organized around this phantasmagoria, and they offer an unusually clear view of the debilitating dogma that lurks at the heart of liberalism: Western power is utterly malevolent, while the powerless people of the Earth can be counted on to embrace reason and tolerance, if only given sufficient economic opportunities.

I don't know how many more engineers and architects need to blow themselves up, fly planes into buildings or saw the heads off of journalists before this fantasy will dissipate. The truth is that there is every reason to believe that a terrifying number of the world's Muslims now view all political and moral questions in terms of their affiliation with Islam. This leads them to rally to the cause of other Muslims no matter how sociopathic their behavior. This benighted religious solidarity may be the greatest problem facing civilization and yet it is regularly misconstrued, ignored or obfuscated by liberals.

Given the mendacity and shocking incompetence of the Bush administration — especially its mishandling of the war in Iraq — liberals can find much to lament in the conservative approach to fighting the war on terror. Unfortunately, liberals hate the current administration with such fury that they regularly fail to acknowledge just how dangerous and depraved our enemies in the Muslim world are.

Recent condemnations of the Bush administration's use of the phrase "Islamic fascism" are a case in point. There is no question that the phrase is imprecise — Islamists are not technically fascists, and the term ignores a variety of schisms that exist even among Islamists — but it is by no means an example of wartime propaganda, as has been repeatedly alleged by liberals.

In their analyses of U.S. and Israeli foreign policy, liberals can be relied on to overlook the most basic moral distinctions. For instance, they ignore the fact that Muslims intentionally murder noncombatants, while we and the Israelis (as a rule) seek to avoid doing so. Muslims routinely use human shields, and this accounts for much of the collateral damage we and the Israelis cause; the political discourse throughout much of the Muslim world, especially with respect to Jews, is explicitly and unabashedly genocidal.

Given these distinctions, there is no question that the Israelis now hold the moral high ground in their conflict with Hamas and Hezbollah. And yet liberals in the United States and Europe often speak as though the truth were otherwise.

We are entering an age of unchecked nuclear proliferation and, it seems likely, nuclear terrorism. There is, therefore, no future in which aspiring martyrs will make good neighbors for us. Unless liberals realize that there are tens of millions of people in the Muslim world who are far scarier than Dick Cheney, they will be unable to protect civilization from its genuine enemies.

Increasingly, Americans will come to believe that the only people hard-headed enough to fight the religious lunatics of the Muslim world are the religious lunatics of the West. Indeed, it is telling that the people who speak with the greatest moral clarity about the current wars in the Middle East are members of the Christian right, whose infatuation with biblical prophecy is nearly as troubling as the ideology of our enemies. Religious dogmatism is now playing both sides of the board in a very dangerous game.

While liberals should be the ones pointing the way beyond this Iron Age madness, they are rendering themselves increasingly irrelevant. Being generally reasonable and tolerant of diversity, liberals should be especially sensitive to the dangers of religious literalism. But they aren't.

The same failure of liberalism is evident in Western Europe, where the dogma of multiculturalism has left a secular Europe very slow to address the looming problem of religious extremism among its immigrants. The people who speak most sensibly about the threat that Islam poses to Europe are actually fascists.

To say that this does not bode well for liberalism is an understatement: It does not bode well for the future of civilization.

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I am seeking meaningful work.

bio: http://aqalicious.gaia.com/

I spend most of my "forum time" these days on The Integral Pod: http://pods.gaia.com/ii/

"You've never seen everything." - Bruce Cockburn

Hey proevolution,

Wow!  I am just blown away that Sam Harris completely ignores that conservative blue/orange v-meme economic and political (colonial and corporate) policies (and their devastating effects) are primarily responsible for the growing waves of anti-Americanism and terrorism around the world...........(which is not restricted at all to Muslims BTW!)........The article should be called "Head in the Sands Conservatives"........for they are and have been always in control here in the U.S. and most of the world..........

Blue leaders are firing the rhetoric for war and armageddon equally on both sides of the conflict to appeal to their pre-rational bases so they can remain in control...........but the underlying reasons for the conflict are economic and human rights issues.........not spiritual propoganda..........which is only one of many tools being used by both sides.........

Progressives (who have never been close to being in power in the U.S. for heaven's sake.......and aren't even allowed to participate in presidential political debates!!) have been calling for dramatic changes in these policies for 40 years, have repreatedly warned of the very threats we are facing............yet we continue unabated with the same moronic policies.........and now are once again resorting to militarism and violence to enforce them.........

Progressives know full well the very real threats we are facing.........but terrorism is only an extreme tip of a much, much larger iceberg of growing discontent that lies beneath the surface, which supports and funds the "terrorist" strategy........a dissatisfaction that has been dismissed and ignored by the relatively wealthy and powerful for far, far too long.........an anger that derives from values, policies and outcomes that are no longer adequate nor acceptable in the world that has evolved thus far........

It is so sad that Harris has apparently been spooked from the correct path..........he was right that blue meme faithers were a dead end of perpetual conflicts..............but he misses the even-more obvious facts that orange v-meme citizens/corporatists/miltarists are equally to blame for out current dangerous situation...........

Both the blue gods of yore and the orange gods of glistening skyscrappers amidst crushing poverty are equally to blame for this one..............not green (and higher) liberals who have never had a chance, yet, to call (or even significantly influence) the shots..........but the times they are a changin'...........I hope, pray and work so they get a chance before the next predictable, preventable great war;  but if not.........it ultimately does not matter...........for their turn will certainly then come afterwards...........so mankind can continue to evolve.........

R.K.

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"No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness that created it in the first place!"

887 Posts on Forum #1; 222 Posts on Forum #2......Member Since 8/8/2003

"The Uniter is going to be born here and it is going to come in plenty. It is not going to be only one human being but many. And when the Uniter is born it is going to grow and more and more humans are going to be included in the thoughts of the Uniter."

~ Ambres , 1985' (an entity purported to be channeled by a modern - day Swedish carpenter named Sture Johansson)

quote from:: The Millennium Book Of Prophecy , penned by John Hogue

Maybe we should put the blame for terrorism where it belongs...on the terrorists and their extremist ideology, instead of skyscrapers and economics. OBL wasn't exactly poor and oppressed.

Discontent? That exists everywhere regardless of socioeconomic status. There are many other avenues to express "discontent" besides killing people.

RK,

 

I am not sure pushing America to green(and further away from the developing world) is the right angle. Perhaps working to bring the rest of the world to healthy Blue/Orange is what is neccessary. They will have to go through this stage(skyscrapers and all) eventually.

If we are Green and they are Blue/Orange, doesn't this continue the conflict? I think what we need is everybody to be at the same meme level(regardless of what that is) to have more harmony in the world.

Then we can all evolve together.

RK, Homey, really, I mean come on,...

"Orange is primarily responsible for the anti-americanism and terrorism around the world."

Of course we need to recognize the LR economic structures  and the fundamental inequality that was pushed by the the global trade agreements of NAFTA, WTO, GATT, and others.

However the point needs to be made BADLY that use of non-combatants (citizens) as human shields, the use of suicide attacks on civilians (Iraqi Markets, NYC, Spain Subway, etc), the disinterest in logical debates (red and blue values) in favor of murder and carnage, Needs to be recognized as a UL Choice made by a individual holon.  The Orangey Sky Scrapers LR don't force the UL Choice to Fuck yourself up with explosives. Nor  does it by default  force the LL  muslim culture to stagnate at Red.

We cannot justify this UL choice as primarily the fault of the LR economic strutures.  If that was true, then what you are saying is that if the US pulled out of the middle east, stopped supporting Israel and withdrew from global trade agreements, (which it CANNOT because the US currency is Soley suported and propped up by Asian Global Banks, in particular Chinese banks. Once China stops buying our debt in the form of T-Bills and gov't treasurey, then we no longer have the ability to run deficiets, than our economy utterly collapses, than our consumers cannot buy anything, thus the entire world is thrown into a global depression of unprecendented proportions).  Sorry that was a really long run on sentence.  But...

If we did withdrawl from  these things (Iraq, Israel, Trade) would then, magically the red and blue tribal warlords and terrorists finally get it.  Finally give up their ambitions for power and fundamentalist interpretations of culture (Red and Blue baby). Maybe they would lose some of their propaganda power, but otherwise, I don't think anything but the Convery Belt Theory laid out in Integral Spirituality will even touch the left hand quadrants of the middleastern puzzle.

-B

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"Should it matter that my mind won't fit back in my head" -S. Davis

Hey Kaspan,

Maybe we should put the blame for terrorism where it belongs...on the terrorists and their extremist ideology, instead of skyscrapers and economics. OBL wasn't exactly poor and oppressed.

Discontent? That exists everywhere regardless of socioeconomic status. There are many other avenues to express "discontent" besides killing people.

It seems to me you are almost completely dismissing and discounting the massive discontent and increasingly frustrated, angry and violent feelings and thoughts of billions of relatively impoverished peoples around the world........who are falling farther and farther behind every year.........and their numbers and anger is growing every year.........That is the underlying reality I am seeing and that they are seeing.........do you not see it also?

Unfortunetly, they do not see or have access to or outright reject the many other avenues you and other blue/orangers commonly allude to.........which we (the wealthiest and most powerful nations) have installed and developed thus far........which have not made a dent (in fact have worsed) the underlying issue of wealth and income disparity in the world........You seem to be denying that these improvements and reforms need to be made........is that so?

This is a much bigger problem than red/blue terrorists  facing off against red/blue/orange political economies.........The terrorists are simply one symptom of the larger seething anger and frustration among billions of red/blues in the world that is growing and growing........ and we are not doing what is necessary to address it...........

Yes, we need to help get them to orange and remove their unhealthy strains of red and blue (here in this country also btw)............but the orange methods the West is using are failing miserably...........the resources we are devoting to this problem are not nearly adequate nor are they arriving fast enough........in our immoral absence (in the vacuum we created by relatively-ignoring the dire poverty and suffering in the world) al-quada and other extremist groups have found and are finding virtually unlimted opportunity and support..........and what we are doing (or attempting to do) is either the wrong thing, or way, way too little.........way, way too late.........

We are focusing too much on the wrong lesser evil (but sure, the small minority of terrorists must be stopped and held accountable for any war crimes they committ), and not focusing nearly enough on (in fact we are still virtually-ignoring/dismissing) the much larger systemic problems that create and maintain the dire poverty and disparity in the first place.........

To find and implement effective solutions, healthy red, blue and orange values must be retained by the west in this effort (but the unhealty ones must be discarded, reformed or replaced) and supplemented by healthy green.  And the wealthiest on the planet must lead the way........by cleaning up our own houses and simultaneously helping others do the same........as partners, not arrogant dictators..........

I am not sure pushing America to green(and further away from the developing world) is the right angle. Perhaps working to bring the rest of the world to healthy Blue/Orange is what is neccessary. They will have to go through this stage(skyscrapers and all) eventually.

If we are Green and they are Blue/Orange, doesn't this continue the conflict? I think what we need is everybody to be at the same meme level(regardless of what that is) to have more harmony in the world.

Then we can all evolve together.

Interesting thought and I think seems intuitively true.........that is, helping raise them up while we get our own values and manifestations in more-healthy alignment...........maybe this sums up a lot of what I have been working through.........(but hadn't arrived at yet).........I will ponder more.........but instinctively I feel that green shouldn't be an obstacle that needs to be withheld entirely........

Good working with you again,

R.K.

Hi RK,

I tend to think that the way to get out of poverty is first to want to get out, and then to do what is neccessary(work for it, get creative, etc). Outside of maybe Africa, the ability for a person to get themselves out of poverty seems pretty do-able. I have seen too many rags to riches stories. I know, it is much easier to make money if you already have it. The Orange capitalist system is a bit of a gauntlet, where the strong survive and the weak do not. In this system, will is very important. This is the stage where people develope individual power and scientific reason. My question would be: would american egalitarian policies work well for a world moving to Orange? As the Superpower setting the example and leading the way, maybe healthy orange should be our goal( for the moment).

I like the idea of green egalitarianism(sp), but I also think Orange is a stage most of the world is moving to right now.

"It seems to me you are almost completely dismissing and discounting the massive discontent and increasingly frustrated, angry and violent feelings and thoughts of billions of relatively impoverished peoples around the world"

Honesty, I don't see this. Some discontent maybe, but massive? I always liked the saying "where there is a will, there is a way"  It's up to individual people to change and improve their lives. I think discontent is an equation where what you have doesn't match what you want. That said, discontent is what leads to change. Is there more discontent now than previous history? Discontent seems to be a natural phenomena in our growth and awareness.

You seem to be denying that these improvements and reforms need to be made........is that so?

No,  improvements and reforms need to be made. But I also think that the Orange capitalist gauntlet offers valuable lessons in that people need to rely on themselves and their own self determination to make things happen. Of course, if, as you say, they have absolutely no avenue for changing their situation, then this is definitley an area for reform.

but the orange methods the West is using are failing miserably

Well, if this is true, it seems that this is because we are dealing with a Blue world. Blue methods, in theory, should work better, yes? Would Green methods work better for a Blue world? At least with Orange methods, the blue world has something reachable to to stretch for. Thats how it seems to me. Wouldn't green methods prevent orange emergence and stunt the growth of the Blue world?

I could be totally wrong about all of this but this is how I am seeing things these days.

Good working with you again,

Ditto

 

Kaspan,

The Orange capitalist is a bit of a gauntlet, where the strong survive and the week do not. In this system, will is very important. This is the stage where people develope individual power and scientific reason. My question would be: would american egalitarian policies work well for a world moving to Orange? As the Superpower setting the example and leading the way, maybe healthy orange should be our goal( for the moment).

Yes, I think we are in agreement here.......orange is a necessary and worthwhile stage of development for all to have...........but why not insist that better green reforms are included?  Do not allow excessive profits to be stockpiled by individuals or corporations, when there are massive social needs that also need to be addressed properly........as long as we keep allowing a minority to skim excessive amounts off the top, there will never be enough resources available for those at the bottom to catch-up adequately (or even survive, in many parts of the world).

Overly competitive behaviors are also a problem for most orange currently in practice, which really would rather not have any real competition and so often works to suppress it.........and what about those who do not wish to compete?..........Do we force them to do so?.........Seems like there are great areas where more-sensitive, more-compassionte green values are needed for advancement.  I agree healthy orange here in SuperPowerLand should be our goal.........but even in a pure healthy orange state.........the inadequacies of unfair competition (due mostly to where the developing societies are starting out) are a major source of frustration and anger............and it will take green values I think to help balance them........

Honesty, I don't see this. Some discontent maybe, but massive? I always liked the saying "where there is a will, there is a way"  It's up to individual people to change and improve their lives. I think discontent is an equation where what you have doesn't match what you want. That said, discontent is what leads to change. Is there more discontent now than previous history? Discontent seems to be a natural phenomena in our growth and awareness.

It seems pretty clear that there are more civil wars, social instability and terrorism today than at any time in history.  This strife is primarily a result of people (mostly third world people whose countries were and are being stripped of their wealth and natural resources by colonial and now corporate powers) being deprived for decades and centuries of enough opportunities to work for livable wages and wealth ownership that would improve their lives.

The same promises have been made to them over and over again........what is different now?  Why should they trust the first world again?  The reality is that hundreds of millions or billions of them do not trust first-worlders and do not want unhealthy western values and practices forced upon them.........and all they can see is the west occupying their territories, taking their resources, supporting their tyrannical governments (or trying to topple uncooperative ones) and relentlessly seeking to force their structures and will into their lives......thus springs discontent.........and the change they seek is to force the west to change its policies and/or leave.

I am still (and will be for sometime I think) processing your notion  of somehow seeking similar levels as part of the overall strategy for advancement! 

R.K.

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"No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness that created it in the first place!"

887 Posts on Forum #1; 222 Posts on Forum #2......Member Since 8/8/2003

Hey bh,

"Orange is primarily responsible for the anti-americanism and terrorism around the world."

I did say blue/orange policies are primarily responsible for the growing waves of anti-americanism and terrorism we are seeing around the world.........and I think I'll stand by that.........

Your point that the UL red/blue individual should somehow know better and be held accountable for terroristic crimes against humanity is well taken and understood.........but that is only part of the AQAL story that is no more important than the negative effects of the LR blue/orange dominated collective (western colonial and corporate/government structures and practices in the middle-east and third world, both current and historical)........

The blue/orange paradigm has dominated the world for centuries now, and if it is taking credit for all the positive advancements and developments that have manifested, it must equally take the blame for the negative by-products and areas where it has and is failing miserably.........either by design or by unconscious neglect..........

Both the red/blue terrorist (UL) who believes he is serving God's will and using the only effective tools he has to make necessary changes (even if this means killing some innocent people) and the blue/orange corporate system (LR) which holds trillions of dollars in personal and collective wealth while tens of millions of children starve to death every year and billions live in crushing poverty (on under $2 per day) need to be held equally accountable...........

Our problem in the first world however, is that we equate all third worlders who are beginning to flex their muscles, rebel and demand changes in our imperfect system (or are not passively acquiesing to its demands) with terrorists..........they are not.......and we need to start paying attention and making the changes necessary........which includes manifesting more green values.

All the best,

R.K.

---

"No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness that created it in the first place!"

887 Posts on Forum #1; 222 Posts on Forum #2......Member Since 8/8/2003

but why not insist that better green reforms are included?  Do not allow excessive profits to be stockpiled by individuals or corporations, when there are massive social needs that also need to be addressed properly. 

hmmm. I am not sure about this one...it sounds alright, but aren't the Orange and Green rather hostile to one another? What you are suggesting definitely would work in a 2nd tier society, but I am not so sure about a first tier one. Is it just me or when there is a mixing of memes in a non-integral atmosphere, there tends to be conflict?

Believe me, if Green values will harmonize with Orange ones, I am all for it. We do need a place for Green to develope so they can move to 2nd tier. It seems to me that once they get there and integrate, they should have their center of gravity at whatever the current world meme threshold is(currently Orange) in order to work effectively. Kind of like the teacher who can do college math but teaches 7th grade arithmatic because that is what is needed for those 7th grade students.

the inadequacies of unfair competition (due mostly to where the developing societies are starting out) are a major source of frustration and anger............and it will take green values I think to help balance them........

...or once the developing societies are in the game long enough they will aquire the knowledge and power to compete themselves(the student always usurps the master). That very anger and frustration should motivate to get better at the game. Like the freshman on the football team who has to take alot of crap and abuse. He either quits or endures and becomes stronger for it. Maybe not the best way, but this is the Orange way. I believe Green values will help societies at mature Orange. But for emerging Orange societies, Green values are in conflict.

and what about those who do not wish to compete?..........Do we force them to do so?

This hits close to home. I was a spiritual kid, who detested words like job and career. In college(only went because my parents wanted), I read Wilber and spent my time on more lofty endeavors. Well, after graduating without a degree useful in the real world, I soon began to realize my predicament. I hated my first job and that frustration pushed me to integrate my Orange...and FAST. The spiritual books went away and I became career and business minded. Everything I despised, I had to deal with as a part of me...a part of life. Sometimes desperate circumstances are the best motivator for change. I did not want to integrate Orange...I had to in order to survive. And I am glad I did.

 This strife is primarily a result of people (mostly third world people whose countries were and are being stripped of their wealth and natural resources by colonial and now corporate powers) being deprived for decades and centuries of enough opportunities to work for livable wages and wealth ownership that would improve their lives.

Ok, but countries are still getting wealthy by us buying their resources(Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait etc). Many of them do not have the technology to develope these resources(where the corporations come in). I agree, there is alot of American influence on these countries, but in a globalising world where resources are vital for survival, this is understandable. A perfect scenario? No. Orange scenario? Yup. This is probably where Green will work to the benefit of mature Orange America in that it will be more ethical in it's decisions on what regimes to support and not just be concerned with the economic end. That said, I hope it doesn't start giving handouts to emerging Orange societies discovering their power and competitiveness.

...or once the developing societies are in the game long enough they will aquire the knowledge and power to compete themselves(the student always usurps the master). That very anger and frustration should motivate to get better at the game. Like the freshman on the football team who has to take alot of crap and abuse. He either quits or endures and becomes stronger for it. Maybe not the best way, but this is the Orange way.

And that is why it is failing and will continue to fail..........we are seeing more and more failed states in the world every year........and these are the breeding grounds for the growing rebellion and terrorism we are seeing..........that very anger is motivating them to CHANGE THE GAME, to one where THEY have an advantage........i.e., by not playing unhealthy-orange's game according to Christian-blue (esp in the Muslim world) rules.........

Are we listening at all to the changes in the game THEY want?  Absolutely not enough.......... 

I did not want to integrate Orange...I had to in order to survive. And I am glad I did.

I am glad it has worked out for you and that you were able to integrate........but the question remains:  What about all those millions/billions who CANNOT or do not want to integrate on western terms?  Do we just let them starve to death or fester in poverty?  That is essentially what we are saying and doing in much of the world right now........it's our way or the highway.......and if you don't like it........it's a modern-day "let them eat cake"........And we know how that strategy turned out, don't we? 

We need more green values in the mix in this emerging era, just like we needed more orange values to move into the democratic, capitalistic era (which seems to have reached its peak and accomplished about all it can as the world's dominant paradigm.....based on the number and severity of the crises it is generating and not handling according to its limited values).

This is probably where Green will work to the benefit of mature Orange America in that it will be more ethical in it's decisions on what regimes to support and not just be concerned with the economic end.

This is what we need to be doing right now (more green) in countries like Nigeria, Congo, Sudan, Somalia........but the same game is still being played.........the corporatists there enrich only a few at the top, while the masses continue to starve and be mired in poverty........this is what happened in Venezula until Chavez came to power and it is the reason Chavez came to power..........the outdated and unhealthy orange values are deep in the economic structures being created in the world's developing nations.........and poorer people (who don't get the benefits anyway) are finally rejecting them........and the powers that be here don't like it one bit..........so they incite their blue-base for war!

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"No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness that created it in the first place!"

887 Posts on Forum #1; 222 Posts on Forum #2......Member Since 8/8/2003

Don't worry, RK, Green will come...then Yellow...then Turquoise. One day this trillion year rollercoaster ride will end with all enlightened.

What then? Descend back to ignorance over the next trillion years and do it all again.

 

Don't worry, RK, Green will come...then Yellow...then Turquoise. One day this trillion year rollercoaster ride will end with all enlightened.

Hey Kaspan, Green (then Yellow, then Turquoise........) will come when they are part of my individual consciousness and manifestation in the world............and when enough others join in these "higher" states of consciousness...............

Levels of consciousness are choices of free-will (influenced, but not determined, by past levels, thoughts and manifestations)..........moment by moment, moment by moment...... into infinity...........

So no particular outcome is assured..........in the very next moment..........or in any that follow..............

All the best,

R.K.

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"No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness that created it in the first place!"

887 Posts on Forum #1; 222 Posts on Forum #2......Member Since 8/8/2003