Hello All. I wanted to start a discussion concerning a comment by Yogi Bhajan. He claims that a person who smokes too much marijuana becomes a vegetable, that the permanent damage from prolonged use will prevent one from ever having a spiritual experience. Is this possible in any cases? Can one always recover and fully recuperate from anything. Is the entirety of spirit available to anyone as long as they are alive? Is this prevention from spiritual experience possible? My feelings are that maybe temporaily one can be in bad shape but they should be able to heal from anything. Or maybe this is true but not bad because nothing is good or bad, In which case all one can do is simply appreciate where they are at and move on.
Thank you.

Hello snakewolf.

I don't know who Yogi Bahjan is but concerning marijuana I can tell you some personal opinions, based on experience and observations.

I think it is possible to become a living vegetable by smoking dope constantly over years and years in heavy doses. And there can be cases were such brain damage is irreversible. Of course the light of Spirit still shines in them, as it does in chlidren, animals, plants and mentally handicapped. But the ability to function in our everyday world on one's own will be seriously damaged. Permanently.

Having said that, I personally think that it's okay to smoke pot now and then. It can give you easy access to the 'Flow' state and increases associative thinking (in my experience it's like that. yes this means I did inhale). In my opinion marijuana should be a legal drug, as it is in the Netherlands for example. But this is ultimately a political question and I don't see the legalization coming in the next few years.

So my advice would be: get yourself some pot (from the dealer of your confidence) and give it a try. If it works for you, fine. If not, let it be. I know some people who said they didn't get anything at all from smoking pot. That's okay, so it just doesn't work for them.

Still, there are are some contra-indications. You should use marjuana only if you are older than 21. Consuming pot in adolescence regularly and heavily is likely to cause developmental problems, total lack of motivation and society drop-out (and that's not so funny as it might seem). And yes, pot can be a entry ticket for a further drug career, followed by Opium and what not. Plus smoking pot in adolescence can lead to the break-out of latent psychic problems lurking in the unconscious, like Borderline or psychotic pathologies.

I hope you see by now that using drugs is a dangerous thing to do. If you still want to go on, remember that You should use the drug and not vice versa. Use it consciously, make sure to be in a setting where you feel safe and at home. Use it together with a friend or two who you can trust. Be aware that that you enter dangerous ground. Yes, it's dangerous, but crossing a street is dangerous. too. Living a life in our times is dangerous. Be aware of all that and go for it. When everything works out fine, there's a chance that you'll make a spiritual experience worth the deal.

Of course, smoking pot is no practice in itself. But as part of an ILP (Integral Life Practice) and in addition to study, meditation and social activity, I think it's legitimate to consider smoking pot, while taking into account what I wrote above.

Best,

witz

I in accord with what Witz says completely.

And I am starting a Chronic ILP group. (Just joking ...)

Part of the challenge is finding Integrally awakened people to share the bowl. The altered state can only be of value if the community one is in is responsible, awake, benevolent, and creative.

I remember hanging out with a very idealistic group of hippies in the late 60s. I was the token youth corps in the group. When they were high they would paint, dance, blow bubbles, explore tactile experiences, etc. If the people you are smoking with can't do that, then just split.

Witz made a great point - the associative thinking opens up. It's always there when sober - but the forces of reality and group purposeful action make us ignore these little portals. When the bowl starts circling around, these portals get larger and easier to pass into.

I mentioned before, I almost don't even trust people who have never toked a joint. They can be competent, responsible, reliable, etc. but invariably they are incapable of playing with reality, slipping up into new states, exploring anything interior, and making connections that reflect meta-awareness of the ground of being.

Imagine if marijuana smoking was wrapped up in traditions and rituals like the Catholic church has! I could literally see light and moderate marijuana use as promoting certain ILPs. It would certainly be better than firing up a joint at a loud rock party kegger scene.

That said, I have nothing to do with drug use personally these days. I have children. I need to be awake for them. How do I explain my ethical choices concerning where I am getting the weed from, who I am getting it from, why they need to keep an eye out for the cops when I am hiding in the backyard smoking a joint, etc. The only Integral marijuana lifestyle can be lived in Amsterdam I think.