MM:

You said: "If this isn't the case, then it doesn't make sense that the WC Lattice is a rectangle. If the states truly come with the territory of the higher stages then it should be shaped more like a triangle or something, indicating that once you're Clear Light you're also in the nondual state."

Seems to me that the point you make hits at the essential nature of what this lattice is trying to bring forward.

It occurs to me that there are two sister forms in nature that seem to suggest the true form of this lattice: the brain and the mushroom cloud! It keeps growing and growing!

Actually, there's a third...the male penis, when engorged with blood, grows to resemble in form the developed brain, the mushroom cloud and our new and improved lattice! Nature does not make mistakes, right?

 

Hi Bruce,

Sorry I didn't get to this right away.

Yes, this is an interesting and important question. We have vertical enlightenment, and we have horizontal enlightenemnt. And we have "trans-rational" to refer to the vertical movement, but no compliment for the horizontal movement. Right? And the two get confused.

I'm not sure about "trans-structural" either because it seems to imply an awareness of structure or some kind of verticality. How about trans-waking, trans-dreaming, trans-causal? So then we have vertical development and horizontal awakening. How about that?

Or it could be trans-gross realm, trans-dream realm, trans-causal realm. I'm not sure that would illustrate the difference in and of itself, but it might separate things semantically a little bit. Whenever we use a word like "rational" to discuss the horizontal movement it gets confusing.

Best,

David

Hi Schalk,

Schalk: Actually, there's a third...the male penis, when engorged with blood, grows to resemble in form the developed brain, the mushroom cloud and our new and improved lattice! Nature does not make mistakes, right?

 

Great imagery. How about in 3D?  :)

 

mm

 

3D? In the mind of the beholder, right?

Isn't that weird though - why are significant functions that represent life and death following this sort of stamen into blooming into explosive profusion physical model?

 

Hi, David,

Sorry also to be slow in responding.  Trying to do too many things at once...

You wrote:  Yes, this is an interesting and important question. We have vertical enlightenment, and we have horizontal enlightenemnt. And we have "trans-rational" to refer to the vertical movement, but no compliment for the horizontal movement. Right? And the two get confused.

I think that's an excellent, to-the-point summary of the issue.

I agree with you about the problems with trans-structural.  I mentioned it because when you go towards the causal, there is a (momentary) experience of disidentifying with and disengaging from our normal structures.  But I think there's got to be a better choice.  I'm not sure about trans-gross, or trans-subtle, or whatever, simply because it seems a bit redundant, having two names for each state (dream state equalling trans-gross state). 

Let's keep thinking about it.  (Not that we have anything to do with the language Wilber actually uses!  I'm just trying to look for a clear language I feel comfortable using...)

Best wishes,

B.

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May the boundless knowledge that time presents and space allows illuminate the native perspectives of your original face.

When trying to name a new place on a map, we have to be clear on the location of the place, right? We have to have a distinct perception of where the thing is?

Vertical/stage delineations do not refer to anything that we actually experience, right? The vertical delineations refer to "outsider" assessments of the degree of perspective-taking that our consciousness permits?

So, vertical enlightenment is not an experience like horizontal enlightenment, right? Vertical enlightenment is an assessment of the extent to which one's consciousness incorporates the perspectives of all sentient beings?