is the lovemaking between heaven and earth regressive ?

 

innerline, i'm also sorry for offending your feelings. i've felt that way, too, at times. in my case at least, wilber has helped me to move beyond those feelings.

innerline:

There is a time and a place for everything. The topic of this post is the likely hood of 4 billion people dying by human action and inaction. Is playfullness an appropriate response to this subject?

good question! ken wilber offers what can be interpreted as an answer in his forward to 'integral spirituality'. definitely worth considering, imo.

---

fairfaye, "is the lovemaking between heaven and earth regressive ?"

Second teir leadership, would see the circle of responsibility and fullness go together. Sorry if I got authoritarian on the post. It is one thing to attain a greater union and another to become more responsible with that union in the historical process of man. This would be a second teir embrace? I think so. I do not want to seem repressive. I just know that some of the best minds are here in this dialog and in the relative world we are in critical mass for a radical change. I would like to talk about this. The future spinning out of control. As you already know it is something I have agressively been sticking in most of my posts.

How does Integral digest the problems brought up in this article. The future spinning out of control now.

http://www.strike-the-root.com/82/allport/allport1.html

 

Hmm. Innerline is making some pretty strong commentary. I sense that he senses a real crisis is out there and that many people are deluded and willfully ignorant.

I am wondering what Innerline regards as an acceptable state of control for the future?

I am hoping Innerline is willing to state in very clear terms what some of these crises are, what these current and grave situations are that are going to doom us. Specifically, and not in an abstract way.

I sometimes shudder when I think about the level of madness that exists in Africa. We rarely talk about it, but it is stunning how we devote so much attention to minor struggles while millions of people are slaughtering each other. How many Americans give a shit about the difference between a Hutu and a Tutsi? What does this say about us? What does it really mean?

I have a sense that many people are afraid of global warming. We hear of melting polar ice. But everyday we go to check the shore line, and .... the tide keeps coming up to the same point as before!

Does global warming mean that we find new places to live? And new ways to get around?

What about the ideas to fill the atmosphere with chemicals to block the sun?

I think for a lot of older people, the world is increasingly seeming very bizarre. But for younger people, older people are increasingly seeming bizarre. Such mastadons! Big furry old slugs, not adaptable, not flexible, so thick and afraid of change.

Innerline's last line - the Holocaust is going on right now, reminds me of those Larouche guys I engaged with at the post office 9 days ago. They said the world was going to shit on or about 16 July. I appreciate Innerline speaking honestly, but I am hoping to see some really straight-forward and specific examples of where this Holocaust is happening. And I am curious exactly who these conspirators are who planned and are executing it.

Hi Schalk, I feel strange pointing out some very obvious develpments in our world. I do think there is a huge mass of people who have stuck their heads in the sand when it started to look real. The housing crisis is a current reality. Fannie Mae and Fannie Mac are about to be "Bailed Out". What are the implications? A current crisis is the price of Oil. Its right in front of our faces. Do we understand how this has come about? Do we understand how our monetary systems work and how if studied , has a mathmatical certainty of collapsing due to its debt based foundations. Do we understand that the Fed bank is a private bank with private interests. This is reality. I am not making up any theory about what is coming. How much reality info do I need to give you just to be able to understand economics as it is in our world. Not my job man. There is a direction to the movement of the dollar, housing, stock market, inflation, credit,etc . Do you follow the markets? What are the signs. They are way worse than any tv station is going to tell you. The last article I gave you had charts and was economic in its orientation. Read the article and tell me if there is something that Integral is able to work with. So far in my experience I have not seen Integral handling the monetary system in anyway resembling how it is run. We are in a economic crisis and it seems very obtuse that it is not being talked about on the forums.

Schalk, I like your global warming analogy. In economic terms the water is rising and is at our knees, many are in big denial. I do not want to post ugly charts on this forum. I can point you to articles with real data and real world focus. People are holding onto a certain percieved value and wealth that is really not there. Like the value of their house and retirement. Do you not notice what is happening in the economy nationally and globally? Do you have the software to study it?

We have killed over a million Iraq's. What Israel is doing to Palistine is genocide. I could go on and on and am a little distirbed that I have to give you real world examples of current genocide. So why all the real world example stuff, are you not noticing what is happening? Help me here. Maybe its the economic element in all the disasters of man that if not seen makes the big picture not clear. As far as a crisis goes, WE ARE IN ONE. What has to happen for you to feel like there is one? By the time average folk know for sure the water would be at the neck. Gas at 8 dollars a gallon. Houses worth half the price it was a year ago. People trying to pull you out of your car. What would be the waker upper to crisis. Tent cities, car cities, they are growing. You tell me the tipping point for you and I will show how close we are too it with real world info. This is like watching a boulder falling down a hill and it has a ways to go and people can not believe it could make it down to the bottom of the valley and are choosing to not to look at the destruction along the way. But thats me with my assesment of our world through economic eyes. Do you have these eyes?

This is part of the conclusion of this article:

"

Conclusion  

You could be forgiven for thinking I am a pessimist, because this two-part column is a litany of dire problems. But if the problems are real – and they are – then writing honestly about them is realism, not pessimism.  

People are accustomed to believing things that comfort them, but the benefit of seeing things as they are is that acknowledging a problem is the first step in solving it. Right now, the tendency is to see the converging downtrends discussed in this column as temporary, as part of the "normal" business cycle, as something that will soon reverse and return us to the more stable and prosperous world we knew.  

But that is not the case – not this time, or so I believe. Certainly, a tipping point will be reached at some point that will prevent a quick or easy return to prosperous "normality." Too many fundamentals are being eroded at the same time, and this erosion has continued for many decades. I believe the tipping point is now behind us, but if not, it is coming soon. I am hardly alone in this view; see Destruction by Paradigm from March 2007 for a long collection of data and comments by others on the gathering financial storm.  

Don't let occasional short reversals of the downtrend confuse you. The downtrend now underway will outlast and eventually overshadow the Great Depression of the 1930s. Why? Because compared to the situation in late 1929, today's situation is dramatically worse. Today, we have:  

Vastly more debt, at every level (federal, state, local, business, personal): " 

Does this change anything for you Schalk?

 Destruction by Paradigm

This is interesting.

FAUSTIAN ECONOMICS: HELL HATH NO LIMITS, By Wendell Berry

http://carolynbaker.net/site/content/view/575/1/

Thanks for providing that. It is a lot, and I mean a lot, to digest.

In the interim, could you provide a kind of executive summary? A talking points brief, so to speak.

I mean, if things are so dire, there may be no more important thing to do right now ...

Their have been many to state that an economic collapse is immenent. As I learned more about markets it became clear that the psycological aspect of human perception played a huge roll in the markets sustainability. So whats different this time? The psycological perception of the markets has changed at the insider trader level with the understanding of off book markets in derivatives. This market is currently hitting 1000 Trillion dollars on a ratio of assets of 1-100. It can seem like a tornado that gets top heavy and wobbly. The bail out of the banking industry does not even come close to being able to match the neccassary assets. Does ten trillion seem viable to put on the american tax payer. That would put the federal obligations at 750,000 dollars on each person to pay off in their life. This is way out of the zone of trustable for foregners. The value of the dollar will plummet. Americans do not know what this means. It is not pretty at all. All solutions are doomed to fail. Other than restoring the control of money back to congress and legal payment in gold and silver (in a digital world). This would be a radical change for our government. JFK was killed because he wanted to bring the power of money back to the government and back money with silver. The historical understanding of the power elite and how they have compressed the dislocation as to not have a natural process unfold and thus pull off the change they want under the umbrella of another geo-politcal event. Meaning hide the economic events by being able to blame it on an attack of our sovereignty. I can not see an economic collapse without a propaganda event to keep the mob cohesive in their ingnorance. So the power elite are in a jam right now. Do they attack Iran to start the economic collapse and radically change our culture into a police state or do they let the economic collapse happen in its own arena and have a big awakening in our culture of the limits of centrally controlled economies and monetary systems. We might ask for the police state in our ignorance if we do not wake up to the monetary reality. Bush is only president for so long. Will we the people be able to respond to the situation and be allowed to farm and develop local community. I do not think the police state will allow it. Who's property is it? I think it is dire enough to have to move to a country with a culture that is not far remove from the land. Intentional communities would be a postitive outlet. That takes planning and a commitment to another lifestyle. The change in perception in the world markets can be very rapid. Can people change their lifes that fast in a self directed way without enrolling in a state program. I think not. What about our savings to get us over the hump. I know many people who have a retirnment thats in the 500,000 range. This will not cut it. Inflation can make that 500,000 look like 100,000. To make it personally in the economic change you have to have assets worth over 2 million dollars ( and be able to make it liquid). This is a huge wipe out of the middle class. People that were in the upper middle class will be wiped out. If twenty dollars a gallon of gas does not scare you then you will be able to live well.

So alot of this is dependent on understanding the monetary system and the power elite. Study the monetary system leads to the power elite. The owners of the FED bank. Why isn't this known in universities. Their job depends on not pointing out this crutial fact about the FED bank. Seriously. For it brings up a whole bag of obvious questions that do not fit their theory or their collective paradigm.

The power elite is the executive in culture and society and has been there for all time in humanity. We can not stamp out the executive, like we can live if we chop our heads off. Same for the thorasic and abdominal regions of the body. Amazingly enough the constitution was an attempt to get the executive untied to a persons choice and made it law to  follow a written law the constitution. Having a person be a figure head was neeeded for emergencies. For as groups we are quite slow. Having the executive element tied down by written law was a first. It allowed for personal responsiblity and freedom. Well we did not quite grasp the dream back then as well as today. We have the assumption of freedom without knowing what freedom looks like in culture and society. As the articles show, the belief in limitlessness is a paradigm of destruction. And is a first teir illusion so rampant that no one can point out the false saintly position of the ego. No one tells ME what to do. What if you are hungry? What if you want to travel? What if you want a bank account? What if one of your family members is sick? What does this look like in a police state? Someone telling you what to do.

What if the truth of the monetary system leads to the truth of culture. Like cognitive development is neccessary but not sufficiant for moral development. What if monetary and economic awareness is necessary but not suffiecient for cultural awareness?  Two groups that can serve each other, the cultural creatives and the realists. One emphasizes culture and the other society. I have stated in some previous posts, Integral had a blind spot in  the LR in how the monetary systems work. Money has been a big motivator and knowing the structure of our monetary system is crutial but not sufficient in knowing the bottom quadrants. I hope this is digestable. The LR out there beyond the UL's ability to see, cause it was always in somebody elses hands. Human work with hands, is real wealth. Human work paid in dollars is to give ones labor to someone else. someone elses hands, that did not work. A hidden form of slavery that the slaves could not see because they thought they were free. I can come from other angles all together. I am trying to figure out how to express this in a way that makes it pertinent for Integral. The boomeritis disease is more rampant then I thought. It is the basis for our economy. Awe S**t

the best of times .. the worst of times

there is disaster and there is dignity always

 

innerline your awareness concern and action is a great dignity

that is how the disasters are overcome and how new horizons emerge

 

I am wondering how yous guys see this post  with the current event unfolding. Alot has changed in just a few months. How are you guys understanding the events in the monetary and financial systems?