you've tapped into what's become my first love, schalk:  philosophy, the love of wisdom.  and especially integral philosophy, which as i understand it, is evolutionary and developmental.  thus, it's not a question of  whether kant, say, was right or not, but how he helped to move western civilization's understanding of itself to a higher level, resolving some of the glaring shortcomings of its previous self-understanding, only to introduce new ones in the process, which fichte, then schelling and hegel dealt with, but not in a way that could be immediately sustained by that civilization, so there was a regression, perhaps in the service of that civilization's ego?

but even when the dream becomes a nightmare, we can't just let go of it:  better an unpleasant, faulty map of the territory than no map at all!

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i'm still depending on the library's limited service--supposedly, they're working on the problem.  we had another raging thunderstorm last night, more like what usually happens to the east of me and to the south of you, i guess.

incidentally, i just read a somewhat gossipy book, 'mcmafia', that devoted a chapter to western canada.  i hadn't realized your country is as schizophrenic as mine:  crazy liberals on the west coast and dyed-in-the-wool conservatives in your part of the country.

what you say about 'no boundary' is what also happened to 'transformations of consciousness', except this time he decided to go ahead and rewrite the whole book, resulting in the manuscripts for 'overview' and 'superview'.  and here we are, waiting, not that different from those before us, who reportedly would be waiting at the wharves, when a ship from england with the latest dickens novel was coming in.

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yes what happened to 'transformations of consciousness' .. that is what sparked me to say that thing about 'no boundary' ..

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hee hee .. the latest dickens novel .. or like kids were .. waiting for the next harry potter book

the internet's back for us here. it's become essential, hasn't it? the battery for the smoke alarm has gone into death spasms, but who cares? as long as we've got the internet

the last i heard was that TOC will remain as is, and was when it came out in '86. 'overview' and 'superview' will, when they come out, provide an updated picture of states and stages, bits and pieces of which we've been getting in various IN and ISC offerings.

hey! someone that anxious to read about the next harry potter adventure could, in another dozen years, be digging wilber.

ok. maybe you don't live in a square state, but it is a square province, isn't it? although, if it has beaches, it couldn't be too square.

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manitoba is shaped like a rectangle with one wing

we benefit from the great glacial lake agassiz which has long since drained and left us with wonderful lakes and beaches

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yes it's funny how we start displaying withdrawal symptoms when we lose internet access

 

my mistake, fairyfaye. looking more closely at a map, i can see that saskatchewan is canada's only square province (having four, entirely straight, perpendicular sides). by that criterion, however, even kansas fails to be square! although colorado still makes it. and i used to.

but enough of displaying symptoms, and back to the thread. so, is the world spinning out of control? what might that mean? wilber says that the death of half the world's population is a metaphor for what might happen, not literally what will come to pass, which in the quote at the beginning of this thread, he explained, we can't possibly know--not even if we have a sartori!

he does suggest that, with something like aqal, it is possible to sketch some general features of the future in a much more comprehensive way than other prognosticators such as malthus, or the club of rome, or kurtweil, i.e. preachers of doom and preachers of salvation could--with aqal we see both the good and the bad. we can see 2nd tier reaching a tipping point, with enormous potential for good, but believing stupidly that others will appreciate their superior intelligence, and being pushed aside by an egalitarian exuberance that eventually puts some 21st century hitler at the helm of spaceship earth.

in terms of my own experience, that's a very plausible metaphor.

btw, jokulhlaups from the missoula glacial lake supposedly played an important role in forming the valleys in my part of the country, several hundred miles away. talk about something spinning out of control! Nature has never been under human control. put another way, in very general (social, not individual) terms, Mind has never been in control of Body.

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in my mind .. it keeps coming back to:  it's up to second tier leadership to get elected by languaging to first tier, as well as it's own .. it's aHUGE undertaking but possible and perhaps even inevitable .. also there's the minor detail of who and where is this second tier leadership ?

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ah glacial lakes .. mommy earth is so sexy

ha! ha! a minor detail! of course, we can get some clues from wilber. in my country there is the present possibility that the democrats might get something going, although the focus tends to be simply on getting obama elected. if they become preoccupied with this, then, of course, getting a 2nd tier discussion going will not happen.

yeah, daddy heaven can go completely crazy about mommy earth, causing all sorts of havoc. and, according to traditional thinking, we're caught right in the middle of this. we know now we can transcend it, but don't have a clue how to include it. as you suggest, we don't even know how to include 1st tier.

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ha! ha! a minor detail! of course, we can get some clues from wilber. in my country there is the present possibility that higher conscious, democratic leaders might get something going, although the focus tends to be simply on getting obama elected. if they become preoccupied with this, then, of course, getting a 2nd tier discussion going will not happen.

yeah, daddy heaven can go completely crazy about mommy earth, causing all sorts of havoc for all of us in between, if we haven't yet transcended this. even if we have, we still need to include it, and as you suggest, we don't even know how to include 1st tier humanity, let alone Nature.

i just read sean esbjeorn-hargens (sorry, i don't have access to a font with umlauts--btw, your new font looks great) article in the latest issue of aqal journal. in the etheology part, he talks about, in effect, including animals, the holarchical link between us and Nature, now that we've transcended them.

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i'll have to check out the latest aqal journal .. so much so to read so little time

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ha ha daddy heaven is inside mommy earth .. now THAT's erotic !

just some ancient wisdom. they literally believed, didn't they, that when daddy got all worked up into a thunderstorm, and poured out his precious liquid, which then penetrated mommy, he was demonstrating, on a grander scale, an important aspect of their own lives.

but maybe i'm lapsing away from repression and into regression.

fairyfaye, if you have some time to look at the latest issue of aqal journal, i would recommend the article by zachary stein and katie heikkenin--remember her? it's very technical, of course, as it needs to be, if we're going to convince the skeptical that when we refer to altitude, for example, we actually know what we're talking about.

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Looks like this post is getting regressive. The future spinning out of control and we can not wait for Ken's trilogy. I wish Ken was doing some fun modelling of the future. He ends with just being horrified. Even more horrifying is to find out the power elites have promoted green pluralism to do just what Ken said the model would predict. 50 percent of the population dying and a global culture at Red and Amber. Yay, we have change. What is up with you people on this forum. Shame on you for not taking in what Ken is referring too. Remember he talked about shame. Get the Red out of your green asses and see that this does not go well if we do not resist the coma towards our death. We should be demanding the impeachment of the President and Vice President and restore the balance of power in our government. Dennis Kucuchin( Spelling) is a leader for this. Ops, forgot Obama is the focus right now. He will make a good change? I will be suprised if Obama gets into office with out a huge change by then in economics, foreign military "intervention", social unrest and much more. I do not see anything happening to make the future predictions Ken is horrified by from not coming true. I guess we can just indulge ourselfs with our own process and never make a difference. Why aren't people who claim to be integrally aware not leaders in discerning the truth of our current situation. Maybe they are really Green/Red hiding under none integrated Integral intellectualism. I am even more horrified at the Integral naivete because they went from Green then Teal without getting Orange. Very dangerous. Orange being were dialetical reason is working. But we do not know what reason is? So then is Green really green and is Teal really Teal?

What if amber represents the conservation instinct and orange the adaptation instinct and Green the democratic or relational instinct. The future could be where Orange is the social(relational) and Green the Conservation instinct and Teal the executive or adaptation instinct. That would be great. Kens future looks like Red is the social relational, amber is the conservation and Green is the executive or adaptation instinct. A total nightmare. So I do not see the evolution is to get to teal but to get clear about Orange so we can move into Green and Teal trully. I probably should talk more about the instincts I mentioned but want to see how you take this post as it is. Remember humanity as you talk to yourself and lack the being to see how much has been ignored in our regression into subjectivism. If your the ones so compassionate why am I seeing alot of Masterbaters. Please, the holocost is going on right now and your playing like its 1998.  

what are the gains in stamping out playfulness ?

 

There is a time and a place for everything. The topic of this post is the likely hood of 4 billion people dying by human action and inaction. Is playfullness an appropriate response to this subject?

 

i had been hoping for a response to my comment about second tier leadership .. and there was a cafe atmosphere between ralph and i

sorry to have upset u