To all you who are interested in this, I think we always will be, always have been and always will.. KW touches on this in several of his books and says more in some than in others. When he made that quote FF spoke of, he said, For men, it is "Fuck It or Kill It" and for men it is their test to get that thing tamed as they grow in maturity. My words. It sounded as if he meant it was a life long process or the really main test. I think he then alluded to how we have all experienced this, esp women or the "intended victim" in various degrees and as used as metaphor.
Women have a test also and that is to learn to stand on their own two feet. That also came from this same paragraph . I just re-listened to Kosmos this past week and he says, " I used to say with men it is "Fuck It or Kill It" and then went on to explain to Tami Simon how he says it today. Mainly because it is pretty severe. and there is something about putting that out there on tape and have it misconstrued. (my guess) For me it was the perfect way I feel or have felt over and over, subtle ways and not so subtle ways. And KW does change a lot of things by adding to what is said before and tries to say that as he makes changes.
I have had various priests and deacons and men in the catholic church express themselves about women priests. One man said very pompously, "not in my lifetime"
He might have well just said, Fuck You to the women or He killed the conversation.
We usually know when that Fucker or Killer comes out and sometimes just pretending to play. And the test for women, if you are going to pick just one is learning to stand on "your own two feet". As I learned that over the years and thought I had gotten it and then realized I had to take another step and learned some more and then some more, I had to agree that he had picked one of the two main tests for Men and Women. And men have to put up with the woman who wants to be a victim or
is a helpless little barbie, cannot speak for herself,- I could go on and on.
I have two stories about this. One for tonight. I was in a workshop (always looking for certification points when I was practicing here) We had an excellent leader/teacher. He was working with the men and suddenlly he has them all take off their shirts. That is not easy. A man will do that as if he does not care but if he is worried about how he looks, he does care, a lot.Whereas a woman will do anything to keep from looking worse. So there they were most of them in bermuda's or jeans and all of them shirtless and some of them very unhappy with how they looked but very good sports?
Then Leader had them walk around the room bumping into each other or using an elbow to knock another off balance. And with each bump or knock, they had to say UGG! So here were these grown men, some with beer bellies, some very fragile looking or skinny, all sizes and shapes. Walking around bumping into each other on purpose and saying Ugg! At first we did not want to embarrass them by laughing but it had to be one of the funniest things I ever saw. It completely exposed every and all those things we want to keep covered up and never show anyone- not just the precious human body but the Ugg and the way they walked around brought out every vulnerability. But after it was funny, it became something else and eventually all of us women were up standing on the chairs saying Go Go Go etc. And they kept on going. It was as if we really saw them for the first time and they were helpless to be anything more than who they were. They did not stop. We did not stop yelling.
We were proud. We were understanding. It was just an amazing scene. I learned to be free enough to wrap my arms around any man that seemed to be hurting after that. And if anyone needed nurturing we all became freed up in various degrees and found ourselves leaning on each other, touching, sitting in laps. I will never forget how brave those guys were and how willing they are to act the clown at times also.
They did what they were told with trust and were able to understand a whole lot about what was happening also. We talked about all this. There were boundaries. We could not move in on someone who was crying or talking and crying. We could go stand by them but no touching. We had to ask if we could have a hug or if someone wanted a hug etc. It was well done by a gifted leader. I hope you can get a picture of this. It was powerful and both sexes were needed. As an aside,
If I drop out suddenly, it will be because I have to have a hip of back operation. Still doing some test for shooting burning pain which is another whole thing and waiting. I do not want to do this. It has not been a good year in that sense. Just light a candle or keep me in your heart if I drop out. I will be back and I still have another story for this and also some holysync info. Later Pattye
PS Whoever mentioned Ken on annother thread, and his fragile condition, Thanks for the reminder. However, someone ask Corrie about this a few weeks ago and Corrie said that he was doing fine.