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i'd never heard the word theosophy before

would ken's work be considered to be theosophy ?

 

Hi fair',

I wouldn't call Ken's works Theosophy, but this discussion was pure memory lane for me.

My mid-teens were filled with reading the New England Transcendentalists (whoes call for "No more second-hand God" I identified with), and mdm. Blavatsky, and Alice Bailey.

At 16, 17 & 18 I would attend the World Service Forums at the UN and get to hang out with A.Bailey's niece, Mary Bailey, who I remember saying that she was learning Spanish (in her 70s) because of odds of it's prevalence by the next time she takes birth!

Then there's Mesmer, who Jose Silva (American Dynamic Meditation System) drew heavily on in the 50's while researching hypnosis and yoga. In '71 my mom became one of the first Silva Method grads on the east coast of the States, and she taught us (her kids) the Silva techniques. I was eight.

It might have been the ShambhalaSun, or was it PARABOLA, that ran an article (almost twenty years ago) on the Theosophical Society's influence on the design of the game of baseball (# of bases / innings, 108 stitches in every baseball...).

Anyhow, it was good to hear those influences acknowledged and to take stock of heritage as an aspect of today's orientation. 

K

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'takes all kinds.

Hello everybody,

Me too I enjoyed the talk. It is indeed fascinating to hear Ken go through the history of the Theosophy movement, including Swedenborg (who also influenced James Joyce as far as I know), Anton Mesmer and animal magnetism, and finally the impact all this had on young Freud and the development of early Psychoanalysis.

I am very interested in the correlation between Freud's psychosexual development theory and the Chakras. Unfortunately I don't know very much about Chakras. Can somebody point me to a thread on this site or some introducing book I could read to get a 'overview' of the Chakras? I find this very fascinating. This feels like a true 'East meets West' thing, on a quite concrete level. I can think of nobody but Ken Wilber having the expertise that is needed to bring together eastern Buddhism and western Psychology. His position concerning this confluence is indeed quite unique.

Best wishes,

witz

Hi FF,

 

Generally speaking KW’s works are not Theosophy, although his earliest stuff which he sometimes calls Wilber I and Wilber II, is in some respects similar. But the divergence has only widened over the years, notably through the promulgation of the pre-trans fallacy, and most recently via what is usually called the myth of the given.

 

The Theosophical Society itself was formed in 1875 in New York City by an American man and a Russian woman to present certain ideas to the world. Leaving aside the arcane bits of esoterica for which they are famous one of their main effects on American culture has been to aid in the introduction and establishment the related notions of karma and reincarnation, a thrust that has been aided by the astrological community -both here and in the United Kingdom.

 

The American section of the TS has national headquarters about 15 miles from where i live. This has allowed me easy but occasional access to their excellent little library. They also maintain a publishing house, which in 1998 produced the text, Ken Wilber in Dialogue, subtitled, Conversations with leading transpersonal thinkers.

 

Warmly,

 

Charles

88W18'28" 41N58'02"

 

   

 

 

jikishin .. witz .. charlesb .. VERY interesting !

oh there is SOOO much i don't know .. my head is going to EXPLODE

 

Hey witz, i think somebody recommended "Chakras for Beginners" by David Pond when i was wondering what the chakras were.  I will try to see if i can find it somewhere.  (ugh everything is in upheaval for me).

 

I enjoyed the talk also and am still new to chakras, but i think this book is as simple as any for a beginner.  Caroline Myss goes into them in some depth, and she might have some free downloads on her site.  Not sure.

Yep. Thank you Lizzie, I found Pond's book on german Amazon and looked at the Caroline Myss site (wow, flash animation). That's a good start, but is there something more 'scientific' out there? I'm thinking of Aurobindo for example. Chakras are Yoga, right? Jesus, I know nothing about this. They don't tell you anything at the university these days. :(

The Taoist Microcosmic Orbit practice is a very practical way to get first hand experience of chakras.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcosmic_orbit

You can experience for yourself what happens without having to buy into a lot of metaphysics which seem to accompany chakratology (e.g. Theosophy...)

Hey Witz, I am totally clueless...you think i would have advanced from the 60's and 70's with a working knowledge of the chakras, but i know nothing about them.  Aurobindo?  Interesting, i ran into some information about him in an organic store, but know nothing about him either.  He wrote about the Vedas, but i wonder if that included the chakras...do you know?.  Before Aurobindo, it says the Vedas were misunderstood...and apparently the Rishis of India  discovered a fourth world which they wrote about.  Aurobindo was able to intrepret the Vedas.  Hmmmmmmm..................

Lizzie:

Can I ask - from which quadrant's perspective would you like to learn more about the chakras?

schalk, have a little patience with me.....it has taken me years to unravel the damage done to me unseen and unknown...so i am like a kid just waking up, still a little groggy and not sure where i am....but am freeing myself, at least in the inner world, if not the outer from the chains that have bound me for so long......it is little tiny little bit for me which is why i read and listen more than i post....

Lizzie:

Am sorry if you misunderstood me. I have no interest in pushing myself or anyone to be anything other than what they are.

What I was trying to allude to was this: the subject of chakras can be approached from several different perspectives.

1. You can actually engage in a practice to see how they feel. (my link to Microcosmic Orbit was along this line - a very simple practice to get an internal feel for chakras).

2. You can discuss how they feel in a community and refer to what others have said about what they mean.

3. You can approach them as an external, subtle body phenomenon and "study them."

It is really helpful when we are clear what direction we want to go with something. That makes some references more helpful than others.

 

Wow schalk, i completely misunderstood you...thanks for clarifying your meaning!  I thought you were chastizing me for not having complete mastery of Integral Theory:)

I would like to learn from the upper left quadrant, or to actively engage in the practice to see how the chakras feel!  Will check link....

 

OK, and sorry about the misunderstanding.