Egg:

Thank you for your excellent comments!

And thank you for speaking as an individual with an authentic voice - it is a voice like yours that prevents America from sliding into the cancer ward.

Yeah, I have no doubt that Mr. Masters is a highly skilled guy who does really great work.

You know, today I just flew home on an airplane from Minnesota to Washington. As soon as we got on the plane, the head steward came on the 1MC to inform us that the bathroom at the front of the plane is only for business class personnel, and all coach flyers have to use the bathroom in the back.

At that point, a stewardess pulled closed a little curtain separating business from coach.

I've been out of the country for several years, so I keep getting hit in the head with interesting little developments or incidents where I say to myself, "I don't recall this happening like that before."

This incident was kind of in the face. We were flying with our little country club!

When I saw the advertisement posted in this forum for a class that I am purely surmising many or most of the members of the forum would never think of attending solely due to the price, I saw a ripe issue that I think could really bear discussion. But it can only bear fruit if the discussion is honest.  

How powerful is the notion of prestige and class in the American human potential movement?

How exactly does one justify making $4,000 a day with a seminar?

How do leaders and teachers react when they see other teachers (e.g. Tony Robbins) making a run for the bank?

Are there any principles that could or should be set forth?

(By the way, I am not pissed off at Mr. Masters. I honestly don't care what he charges or what he delivers. This just seems like a very ripe opportunity to discuss a broad issue that goes really deep.)

 

Egg:

Here is a hypothetical situation:

I am a teacher of personal enrichment. I am convinced that I am able to "point out" truths that will have lasting significance in the lives of people. I have spent many years accumulating and refining my teachings. I want to spent 21 days with a small group of committed persons and have the greatest impact on the greatest number through them. I am going to charge each person $20,000 for the 21 days. Here is my logic:

1. There are many people with that kind of disposable income. For many people, $20,000 is a drop in the bucket. So, no problem there. Several of them probably made $1 million in one day on an IPO at some point. You call that fair? I'll change their lives for a fraction of that amount.

2. People who can afford $20,000 for personal enrichment, also likely have the free time to really focus on my teachings. People who have childcare issues and 2 jobs and debts are often so wrapped up in making material life work that they won't be free to really assimilate what I am doing.

3. People who can afford $20,000 are likely more influential in their community than an unemployed guy. If I can change the life of 1 rich guy, it is likely that 20 other rich guys will see it or hear about it and they may come in for the teachings with me or someone else. Big ripples.

4. And let's face it, if I can upgrade the vision of a rich guy, it may translate into a real change in the world, given his impact. Upgrade the life of poor man, and I ... upgrade the life of a poor man.

5. There are certain assumptions that are often warranted about people who can spend $20K to enrich their inner lives. Among those are that they show up on time, they know how to take notes, they can focus, they have a certain knowledge base, they are competent in certain areas, they have a vested interest in being responsible and cordial, they are adept at networking and following up, and that they probably (but not certainly) will not come high to the class.

6. A person with $20K to spend on my class is less likely to sue me if something unusual happens to them.

7. If I teach poor guys, then guys with $20K to spend on a class will not come near me in the future because I will be perceived as dirty or low class or low rent. I do not deserve this stigma, even if it is unwarranted or unfair.

8. People who spend $20K on a class will pay more attention and will give greater value to the material than someone who pays $20. I want attentive and serious participants.

9. The substance of my teaching can only be appreciated by people who truly realize that money cannot buy happiness or wisdom. Poor guys often cling to the idea that if they can only make more money they will be happy. Rich guys know that they need something like my teaching and are ripe to hear it.

10. I live in a world of fellow teachers, and if I start "giving away the farm", I draw business away from them and actually may be accused of devaluing the work of everyone. There is a guild factor that must be addressed.

11. There are other teachers charging even more than this, I regard them as delivering less value than I do, and no one complains. So why can't I make at least what these mediocre moderators charge?

12. Rich people are poltically connected and if I can change the world view of one rich guy, he may insist on a more enlightened political performance somewhere within his sphere of influence. It may be a positive factor in the world.

13. Class consciousness is alive in America, and if I can keep all of the participants in my class within the same basic class (upper upper-middle class), it is likely they will be more open about sharing with their fellow classmates. They will share similar experiences and values. (At this point, I don't need to explore how a class like this will exclude certain minorities with demonstrably lower income levels.)

These are just a few of the possible things that run through my head as I hypothetically get set to market a class. I am just putting these out as possible ideas.

Can you think of any others?

 

Schalk, Egg, Arthur -

Great discussion. As one of the decision makers behind these kinds of events I thought I'd chime in with a few thoughts. They are simple and befit the real world of planning these kinds of things:

1. Most event businesses suck. Deepak, Tony, and many others who were mentioned here probably wouldn't do them if there was another way to emulate the richness of an in-person event. Event businesses are high-risk, stressful, and often lose money. We're still looking at how to create an events business that is high-quality and most importantly sustainable. We love events for the experience but they are really hard to make work on an ongoing basis.

2. Teachers aren't free, nor are staff to man the events, nor is hotel space, etc. Any event we put on costs $50K just to put it on the calendar. It's all math from there on whether there is demand to make it work. In the past it hasn't which is why we're redesigning them. I don't like paying $3K for an event any more than anyone else, but the market decides what something is worth and often that means shutting down an event because they are too costly to hold.

3. The exception to #2 above is when the event is a local salon or meetup. They may have the facility and just bring a teacher in and charge $20 for admission. This is a great model for low-cost experience. But if it were perfect than why would big events still be able to attract the $3-5K per event that they sometimes can? Economics 101, the market demands variety and is willing to pay for it (sometimes).

4. I have no moral problem charging what the market will bear to fill an event. I have more than 20 families relying on the payroll I meet and my judgment to ensure that the market is both being served and that it values our offering. We bear the risk when that is not the case and we sometimes get the reward of a profitable event when it is. As a leader who hasn't taken payroll for 17 months working to rebuild Integral Institute and Integral Life, I have a very clean conscience and relationship to risk and reward while balancing my responsibility to my staff, their families, our members, and the world at large.

5. I think Schalk's enumeration above of the differing motivations are insightful, though a lot will depend on the person. My motivations for events are, in this order, 1. provide an incredible growth experience for Integral Life members, 2. create a space for deep state exploration and integral community building, and 3. make enough profit so that we can grow the overall events program (and at the very least breakeven so as not to risk the underlying foundation) in order to foster greater self-awareness in the world.

Finally, Integral Life will as a company expand and grow in ways that some people may think is selling-out to commercialism. Obviously we cannot speak in the abstract here about how this might look and what in particular any given person might react to, but I can guarantee that in the case of this company that is nonsense. Growth is a fundamental aspect of our existence, and I am not worried about how our fundamental mission to help humanity move toward full self-awareness will be compromised by pursuing a profit. They are not contradictory, and in fact until my landlord, employees and the local grocer accepts love in place of money, there is in fact not much of an option. (And I already envision the time and manner when this will in fact change.)

Fun conversation.

Warm regards,

Robb

Robb:

Thanks for sharing the realities of the trade.

Without trying to sound like I am sucking up, I hold Integral Institute in the highest regard. The quality, sincerity, even-handedness, and integrity of what emanates from I-I sets the gold standard in my opinion.

I happen to believe that class is the deepest and touchiest subject in America. And I feel that the human potential organization at whatever size (from a one man show to a large institute) would do well to ensure that it is packaged in a way that permits reasonable access to the humblest among us.

My daughter is applying to Harvard. Did you know that you get free tuition there if your family income is modest? We may well qualify. But if we want to go to Stanford, we are looking at about $60K a year. I realize that Harvard's endowment runs into the billions right now, so it isn't hard for them to do this, but it sure leaves a fresh taste in the mouth.

S

 

Hi Schalk, thanks for the kind words.  I've tracked Harvard's efforts along these lines and applaud the move.  I think it is a great expression of the underlying intention of the donors who have given them a multi-billion dollar endowment. 

And I agree with your point about accessibility, and in fact it is very much in keeping with models I'm trying to employ here: in the first case, now that the Institute is financially sustainable on an in-perpetuity basis for the first time in its history, I am now beginning to build an enduring endowment to fund integral research and applications true to the Institute's mission as the leading integral think tank; I am cautiously optimistic that donors will see how important an integral approach to complex global problems really is and welcome a non-profit that is sustainable before they ever give it one dollar.  And of course we still offer several scholarships to our advanced degree programs as well as scholarships to events when we were held them previously.

In the second case, at Integral Life I am playing with the idea that once we reach a certain critical mass of members, for every paid monthly member after that point we would make a free membership available on scholarship to those in poor countries or economically disadvantaged.  I see this as a way to balance Integral Life's economic prosperity, its responsibility to help humanity by offering integral tools and community wherever we can, and our members' desire to contribute to something larger than all of us and that puts their money to work on behalf of global betterment.  How to operationalize this is a much harder issue that I'm thinking about.

I've really wrestled with the potential problem of integral capitalism, namely that perceived value may go down at higher needs fulfillment.  I think the above solution is a way to address this issue by making the value offered broader than just your needs line, or mine, but actually service to a worldcentric needs line.  I think this is the great hope of integral capitalism.  And I expect the Institute and Life to model integral behavior in this regard.  How we actually do so, we'll see ...

Robb

How great to read all of this!  Makes me feel alive and it is late and I am needing to get to bed.   I am still recuperating from the accident and doing well but have to save my energy for other things.   Have to tie the horse up before I pray and then I must pray/meditate to be strong enough to tie up the horse.  In other words, I have slowed down and have had dreams telling me I am going to a new country and it is that very slowness that will get me there.

I cannot, however, resist good conversation.  And to enjoy people respecting the perspectives of each other in what comes through in autenticiity thanks to some spirited thoughts and passion in the saying.   And it is a gift for me because this is a huge issue and feels even bigger for me because I never can come to a place where I feel I can transcend.    The gift is to read this and feel that "everyone is right" to quote KW or let me say I have taken that as a truth for myself also.  And yet as much as I believe that, there is still that wobbly feeling that I could go either way and then go back to wanting the "right or wrong" answer-  to feel totally sure.  So I really do be-lieve that everyone is right and yet I feel the aliveness and contribution of these discussions because they are in the process of becoming non-dual.  And I can finallly accept that and sleep peacefully.   But it is my passion and so thrilling to me to see the process, hear the process or whatever and I do not always have to be in the middle of the discussion.   I am not sure that I have said this the way I want to convey.  One of the problems with growth is that there seems to be no words sometimes or I am floundering for how to say something.

Just wanted to celebrate the Life in this thread!!!!      I am going to take my Shadow and go to bed.   She is my cat and is laying on my feet under the computer.  Life is so good, sometimes.   Much Love to you all.   Pattye