Here's a question that's been eating at me for some time, and no matter the attempt to resolve it, the same issue keeps coming back up again and again.  If you are practicing your spirituality in a sangat or congregation and come to realize that the level of your practice is being maintained at the level of Amber, for instance, is it better to leave that practice knowing that you are taking the risk of losing what you now have or stay in the practice knowing that you will never advance beyond that level?  So long as the community does what it believes it must do to assure that everyone is "on the same page," what recourse do others within the community have when they realize that what is being maintained by the community leaders is nothing less than "flatland," or a flattening out of the practice so that there will be uniformity and agreement?   The more "heroic" action to take would seem to be to just leave, even at the risk of being ostrasized and ignored by the community.  This act of disregard by the community would betray its own pre/trans state of being, thereby confirming what you thought all along was true.  When faced with the very real possibility of having to practice alone without any support network of others who are there to reinforce your practice, the challenge is indeed heroic in the sense that you are no longer able to support the network because of what it stands for if only because what it stands for is preventing you from advancing into true mastery of your life.

It is my contention that this condition is ubiquitously present in our society, and it is only out of fear and unearned guilt that many people opt to remain right where they are if only because of the security blanket that they will no longer have if they leave.

So is throwing out the Baby Amber worth the risk of losing your relationships that perhaps are the result of years and years of nurture and development?  Not only is the risk of losing relationships a clear and present danger but also the risk that you will not be strong enough to advance beyond that level alone, losing not only Baby Amber but also any of the more integral levels of spiritual development.

If the idea is to transcend and include when moving into these more integral levels of development and the community opts to remain at a level within which it is most comfortable, what other choice is there but to leave?  When any discussion about this matter is regarded as taboo among the leaders in such a community that it is not even considered appropriate to discuss it among themselves, or if it is allowed, to be contextualized within the established framework as something that is inappropriate for the general congregation to discuss among themselves, then is this anything other than mass mind-control with no intention of creating the space for its members to truly attain any other altitude or degree of enlightenment than that which is designated by the community's inner-circle of leaders?

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The yoga of light and sound is really only one event. It's the frequency of their vibrations that is different.

jondavi,

In my experience discerning "baby" from "bathwater" in regards to what's the gold of a level and what's the dross, what's worth retaining and what's appropriate to let go of, it helps me to keep in mind that my personal development is a distinct consern apart from that of others no matter how close my association with them. I am simply not my social holon(s).

When I've felt that my transitioning away from a group, be it my nuclear family, my church, my educational community, etc.., holds the risk of loss of support, mutual affirmation, and conventional belonging, I've been partly right. What I've found to be an invarriable priciple of such transitions is that the releasing of one set of supports invites the arrival of another set.

Amber is of course a very deep groove. I think that the more shallow and advanced the groove the subtler the support we feel as we enter it. I'll bet there are entry and exit grooves which we navigate in our growing. And I'll bet that the support we access while growing is predicated to a large degree on how our forerunners have accomplished it, how they embodied an answer to a dilemma resonant with one we currently face. Don't we all add our own creativity to the streaming repertoire of working out these perenial problems? Digging deeply for our own answers, I find,  seems to put us in touch with real support for the move we need to make. That's excedingly cool.

Social holons tend to challenge, coddle, sustain, reflect or eclipse me. So long as I'm paying attention to where my self related lines are feeding into any phase of engaging a social holon I've got a good chance at maintaining personal integrity throughout my inter-being with them/us. When I've been coddled in a social holon without some active measure of deciphering my own values, of attending to my responsibility for my own development, I've eventually discovered that the price of membership was not only more than I was willing to pay but was other than I was willing to pay. I'd come to realise that I had little or no right to pretend to conform when I had moved on interiorly already.

While your answering of your own question will be unique, I trust it will be supported by the entire history of that choice (which didn't begin with us and won't end with us).

all for now,

Kerry

 

 

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'takes all kinds.

"In my experience discerning "baby" from "bathwater" in regards to what's the gold of a level and what's the dross, what's worth retaining and what's appropriate to let go of, it helps me to keep in mind that my personal development is a distinct consern apart from that of others no matter how close my association with them. I am simply not my social holon(s)."

Thanks, Kerry, for your feed-back on this issue.  There are a couple of notions that are tied to what you wrote and to what this dynamic suggests throughout our experience as social holons. The IN interview with KW and Rupert Sheldrake attempted to show that there really is no collective "I" within any given group of holons, but that there is a collection of individual "I's" and together they make up the integrity of the whole.  Mistaken Identity appears to be another issue as a result of this phenomenon, and whether or not one relinquishes one's own sense of "I" over to the collective, surrendering to what is believed to be a greater intelligence (Rupert's M-Field perhaps?).   Conscious unity within the group is something that a deeper part of the self wants and needs, and the issue really becomes something of a problem when honest integrity within the leadership circle itself leaves something to be desired. 

Surrender of an ego can only come about once there is an ego to surrender.  Ken has spoken about this before; and, of course, how can one surrender what isn't even there yet?  The responsibility of the individual is in doing one's due dilligence.  Inquiry into the structural and managerial workings of the organization is all too crucial to merely "believe" and it will happen.  This is often when the lines of communication between someone who is sincerely inquirying about the potential of becoming a part of the organization and the deeply engrained views as generally held by the organization begin to be challenged.  Someone who is already fully individuated and is perhaps looking for a way to channel his or her own unique value into an organized social holon, can be utterly shocked upon witnessing the ways that authorized management representatives have for designating how a new member is to be treated. This, of course, is all in the name of God or some other external authority figure whose generally recognized as the one who best knows what God wants the new member to do.  When we study the W-C Lattice, one of the first things we can realize is that there are many interpretations of God based on what level of vertical development anyone is experiencing, and at what stage this is being experienced.  What can be a challenge to discern is whether or not someone who is delegated with the authority to determine what my place is within the community really has my best interest at heart, or whether it is the organization and its agenda that is first and foremost.   That agenda may or may not be explicitly revealed, even when questions of honest intent are posed before the authorized representative.

 

 

 

 

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The yoga of light and sound is really only one event. It's the frequency of their vibrations that is different.

jondavi,

While I don't know what your objective in this is, it occurs to me that a functional fit between persons and groups may always have factors on respective 'sides' of the fit which will not be subject to the volition, or even the skillfulness, of any one side. 

If you yourself are "...looking for a way to channel [your] own unique value into an organized social holon" , are you seeking change in areas where you have little or no control, or using the social arena to express and meet what may be strictly personal needs? What are you trying to do?

Be well,

Kerry

 

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'takes all kinds.

jikishin:

Amber is of course a very deep groove. I think that the more shallow and advanced the groove the subtler the support we feel as we enter it. I'll bet there are entry and exit grooves which we navigate in our growing. And I'll bet that the support we access while growing is predicated to a large degree on how our forerunners have accomplished it, how they embodied an answer to a dilemma resonant with one we currently face. Don't we all add our own creativity to the streaming repertoire of working out these perenial problems? Digging deeply for our own answers, I find,  seems to put us in touch with real support for the move we need to make. That's excedingly cool.

Social holons tend to challenge, coddle, sustain, reflect or eclipse me. So long as I'm paying attention to where my self related lines are feeding into any phase of engaging a social holon I've got a good chance at maintaining personal integrity throughout my inter-being with them/us.

Kerry,

If what you are saying in the first paragraph above is to honor the past for that which is honorable, yes, there is no argument.  Life is inter-dependent and cannot exist within a vacuum.  Indeed, we truly do stand upon the shoulders of those who preceded us.  It is when a deep layer of the foundation of the past upon which we are standing begins to crack because it can no longer support its own weight, and those forces whose collectively perceived responsibility is to uphold and project a value scheme that does not serve the greatest depth and widest span but rather serves its own interest at the expense of  integral values, that we run into trouble.   It's simply the co-opting of larger and more comprehensive, even fundamental, values that are at stake when one v.Meme uses its collective power to enforce its values over and above all others.   By implication, you should know that the v.Meme referred to is one that is not serving the greatest depth and the widest span and is therefore not integral; and yet, it takes center stage in the arena of human affairs and declares itself as such.

In the second quote above, what you wrote sounds true, and begs for more clarity in the sense of what is meant by, "So long as I'm paying attention to where my self-related lines are feeding into any phase of engaging a social holon I've got a good chance of maintaining personal integrity..." 

For me, this sounds like what you might be saying is that there are certain aspects within the social holon that resonate with your own integrity, and so long as you just focus on those aspects you are able to maintain that same integrity.  Again, if this is indeed what you are saying here then I agree with you, but only partially.  There are contextual considerations that might extend beyond the limits of my awareness which, if known, would perhaps not be worthy of dignifying--in fact, these other contextual considerations could be reason enough to re-consider why I am even involved with this (hypothetical) social holon in the first place.  In other words, this is the "agenda" that was referred to earlier that is not revealed to the uninformed, and if an in-depth inquiry into the workings of this social holon is attempted, the inquirer is ignored or "encouraged" to leave.   And, no, this is not some disguised reference to Integral Institute.  Far from it.  It is rather an attempt to get to heart of the how the Amber meme has virtually taken control of a nation whose founding fathers' center-of-gravity was, imo, far from being dominated by its influence.

Happy Cinco de Mayo,

JD

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The yoga of light and sound is really only one event. It's the frequency of their vibrations that is different.

jon,

Something that brings me peace of mind daily is to refrain from expecting 2nd tier depth from 1st tier.

I can see how it might appear that there is such a time as, "...when one v.Meme uses its collective power to enforce its values over and above all others", but I don't recognize that as something that actually happens. The value-memes, as personal stages of development, probably can't be forced on, or imposed on, another person any more than we can push a peice of fruit out through a bud. Doesn't each level interpret everything through itself?

I wrote, "So long as I'm paying attention to where my self-related lines are feeding into any phase of engaging a social holon I've got a good chance of maintaining personal integrity." I was refering to a habit of taking inventory of my own motives and how these contribute to my experience of self and other, totaly in context, not hypothetically.

For instance; I may have some split off 'amber' which I unknowingly project onto certain externals. The degree to which my transcending and negating of amber remains incomplete are the ways that my inclusion and preservation of amber are lacking. These quirks of my growth, the ways I fail to validate a v-meme, stunt or distort my rapport with some expressions of that v-meme. Second Tier doesn't appear to me out of the blue with no visible means of support. It apears to rest on the present expressions of each junior meme, I think. However, my own shadowed aspects of v-memes blind me to how no meme impeads another. Where I've successfully included and preserved a meme in it's health I notice the larger harmonies and beauty comprised of the many details of tensions and pressures. 

Cinco de Mayo! , an fine Amber event, (foregive my tangents)

K

 

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'takes all kinds.

"Have We Moved Beyond the Age of Gurus?" (Ken Wilber transcript) is an earlier interview with Ken which, incidentally, can be found in its original format here.  My comment on the blog site ties in with this conversation.  The comment speaks for itself; but, if any questions arise regarding context, please read the original interview.  There truly is a rather tricky way that spiritual organizations manage the membership by reinforcing certain behaviours that promote the organization's agenda and negatively reinforcing any behaviours that do not support that agenda.  In the transcript, Ken discusses the fine line between the need to "scale down the guru" and those traditions whose cultural history has perhaps for the longest time been unquestionably sacrosanct within the culture.  What happens when such traditions are exported to the West?   The transcript is a fascinating interaction and is worth the read.  Here's my comment on "scaling down the guru": 
 
Insofar as what "scaling down the guru" has done to the traditions whose center of gravity depend solely on the guru, one critical issue that begs to be addressed is the delegation of the guru's authority. Some of these traditions that have made their way to the West and have established themselves into the mainstream culture have managed to distribute the spiritual teacher's authority to "mid-level" managers. These middle managers are presumably following the teacher's directives and sometimes those directives are interpreted by the mid-manager to mean one thing when the teacher may have other intentions entirely. So what can someone who is new to the tradition do to know that the demands made by middle-management are the same demands that the teacher truly wants?

Indeed, the implication here is that the organization is so large that the teacher cannot be everywhere and the student may not be in close proximity to the teacher for reasons pertaining to any number of factors; i.e., time, place, circumstance disallowing the possiblity to be in the physical presence of the teacher 24/7. That is, in the past, when these traditions were set up for teaching an oral tradition where the teacher would be with the students, or at least within proximity of those students, the student knew what the teacher wanted because the request came directly from the teacher. Nowadays, the directive might come from someone whose authority is delegated, and that authority might be two-times, three-times, or even more times removed from the original source. This leaves much to be desired, especially when details of translation and interpretation are in question.

Should the student accept the demands of the authorized representive without question? Does the authorized representative even care about the complexities of individual spiritual matters when a general directive is given as a uniform construct to be obeyed by all regardless the UL issues that a teacher would know if the student were in his or her presence? This is where the sangat can be in danger of expecting the students to fly at the same altitude when some of those students are either flying higher or lower than the consensus.

Jondavi

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The yoga of light and sound is really only one event. It's the frequency of their vibrations that is different.

Jondavi,

My perception (take it or leave it) is that when discussing the 'scaling down' of the guru the focus is on the difference between Blue/Amber dogmatic worshipping versus an Integral requirement for a teacher to go beyond the antihierarchial and stagnation of growth Green.

I have felt what you mean with the Mid level managers. However, I see this more as a logistical issue rather than an issue of what place a Guru has in Integral Spirituality.

Although in an Amber context, you could say the Pope has had some real issues with midlevel managers.

Someone of Integral Altitude I would think has an awareness to potentially decipher whether they are making the midlevel manager their guru or the Guru him/herself.

I recently listened to a discussion between KW, Colin Bigelow and Roger Walsh on IN. I'm pretty sure it was Part 2 of it that went into the issues that 20-30 somethings are coming across in the role of and choosing a teacher/ Guru.

I hope this wasn't too much of a tangent to your point.

:)
Kelly

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A clever ironic quote is best here... instead I'll smile :)

KELLY ~ YES, YES, YES, AND YES AGAIN!  EVERYTHING THAT YOU'VE WRITTEN SAYS SO MUCH THAT IS SO SPOT-ON AND YET WITH SUCH PRECISION IN THE WORDING.  INSOFAR AS THE 'LOGISTICs' ISSUE IS CONCERNED, WELL, YOU'LL HAVE TO HELP ME OUT WITH THAT ONE A BIT.  THE WHOLE GURU ISSUE STEMS FROM THE TRANSCRIPT THAT WAS THE RESULT OF A CONVERSATION BETWEEN KW AND TAMI SIMON OF "SOUNDS TRUE" AUDIO.  JUST HOW THE GURU FITS INTO INTEGRAL IS, AS KEN SUGGESTS, KIND OF A TOUGH ISSUE WHEN CONSIDERING THE SO-CALLED "EAST MEETS WEST" PHENOMENON THAT'S BEEN UNFOLDING FOR SOME 50 PLUS YEARS HERE IN THE U.S., AND THANKS FOR TALKING ABOUT IT HERE. 

IS THERE AN ETHICAL IMPERATIVE FOR A TEACHER TO NOT ONLY GO BEYOND THE ANTI-HIERARCHICAL AND STAGNANT GROWTH OF GREEN, BUT TO ALSO ASSIST OTHERS IN THEIR SINCERE ATTEMPT TO EVOLVE BEYOND WHATEVER LIMITATIONS ARE CURRENTLY OBSTRUCTING THEIR PROGRESS?  INDEED, THE BODHISATTVA VOW IS THE PROMISE MADE EITHER AT SOME REMOTE TIME IN THE PAST OR PERHAPS IN THIS VERY MOMENT WHEN THE TIME-SPACE CONTINUUM INCLUDES ALL OF THE PAST AND ALL OF THE FUTURE.  IF CONSCIOUSNESS CAN ONLY BE AWARE OF ITS OWN LEVEL AND THOSE PRECEDING IT, EVEN IF A TEACHER IS A MASTER AT AMBER, HOW WILL ANYONE RECOGNIZE THAT FACT UNLESS ALLOWED AND, YES, ENCOURAGED TO GO BEYOND THE STRUCTURE OF CONSCIOUSNESS THAT IS FIRMLY IN PLACE AS THE CENTER-OF-GRAVITY WITHIN THE SANGAT OR CONGREGATION?

SPIRITUAL EGOISM IS SOMETHING OF A SUBTLE ART FORM WHOSE TRUE MOTIVES OFTEN CANNOT EASILY BE REVEALED. IF THE BODHISATTVA VOW IS TO LIBERATE ALL SENTIENT BEINGS FROM THE BONDAGE OF DUKKA (SUFFERING), AND THE MASTER TEACHER'S ATTAINMENT ONLY GOES AS FAR AS AMBER, THEN ONCE THE SANGAT/CONGREGATION REACHES THAT LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT, ARE WE TRULY FREE FROM ALL SUFFERING?  THE ISSUE-AT-HAND HERE AND FROM THE VERY START IS ABOUT THE GOOD, THE TRUE, AND THE BEAUTIFUL. AND IF THERE IS AN ETHICAL IMPERATIVE THAT THE TEACHER HAS TO GUIDE OTHERS INTO THOSE STAGES OF CONSCIOUSNESS DEVELOPMENT WHERE THEY CAN PERMANENTLY EXPERIENCE THE GOOD, THE TRUE, AND THE BEAUTIFUL, THEN WHAT PREVENTS SO MANY OF THESE MASTER TEACHERS FROM KEEPING THE VOW?  PERHAPS THE TEACHERS ARE NOT TO BE BLAMED.   IF THE STUDENTS ARE NOT READY FOR THE EXPERIENCE AND THE RADICAL LIFE CONDITION THAT CAN FOLLOW, AND ONE THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING, THEN HOW COULD THEY BE TO BLAME? 

NO ONE WANTS TO WAKE UP ONE DAY WHEN THEY'RE, SAY, 75 YEARS OLD AND ONLY THEN DISCOVER THAT THEY HAVE AWAKENED AT THE END OF SOMEONE ELSES DELUSIONAL DREAM.  IF AN ORGANIZATION IS, IN ITS SUM AND SUBSTANCE, TRUE TO ITS COMMITMENT TO THE GOOD. THE TRUE, AND THE BEAUTIFUL, THEN IT WILL DO EVERYTHING IN ITS POWER TO ASSIST ANYONE WHO IS AUTHENTICALLY SINCERE ENOUGH TO WANT TO TRANSCEND AND INCLUDE, DO SO. AND ANY TEACHER, GURU OR NOT, WHO IS LAYING CLAIM TO BEING ENLIGHTENED WHEN THEY ARE NOT (IN THE AQAL SENSE), THEN THE JIG IS UP.  AND ANYONE WHO IS TRULY VERSED WELL ENOUGH IN THE AQAL MODEL SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE THIS...IF...THE AQAL MODEL INCLUDES INTENSIVE AND EXTENSIVE STATE-STAGE REINFORCED BEHAVIOURS.  AND, IN THIS REGARD, STUDIES IN THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE  INTEGRAL LIFE PRACTCES MODULES SHOULD PROVIDE SOME CONFIRMATION OF THIS. 

IF I-I CAN PROVIDE TEACHERS WHO ARE NOT ONLY WELL-VERSED IN AQAL AS A MAP-OF-THE-TERRITORY BUT WHO CAN ALSO PROVIDE TEACHERS WHO CAN WALK THE TALK AS WELL; I.E., THEY HAVE ATTAINED NOT ONLY A HIGH DEGREE OF COGNITIVE AWARENESS BUT ARE INTEGRALLY ROUNDED IN ALL LINES OF DEVELOPMENT, THEN NOTHING IN THE WORLD COULD PREVENT I-I FROM ATTAINING ALL OF THE HARMONIC SUCCESS THAT IT DESERVES.  I-I WILL NO DOUBT BECOME MECCA TO THE WEST, IF INDEED IT CAN OPERATE AT THOSE LEVELS THAT FOR SO MANY YEARS KEN AND SO MANY OTHERS HAVE DEDICATED THEIR LIVES TO REALIZING.    

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The yoga of light and sound is really only one event. It's the frequency of their vibrations that is different.

Jondavi,

Logistical issue? When you have a guru or to put simply, a dude who claims to have experienced The Enlightenment and wishes to offer his 'wisdom' to others, there's only one of him. If he wishes to offer his 'wisdom' to thousands to hundred of thousands of others then logistics comes into play. Getting his 'wisdom' out there obviously would involve 'middle men'. Middle men are prone to altering the information/'wisdom' as they are living through their own lenses. Even if they do their best not to, it's almost inevitable but that's the price you pay for attempting to reach the masses compared to little one on one sessions.

I specifically mentioned Green as in my understanding, Greens are prone to not value Teachers as ‘everyone has their own equal truth’. Therefore a Teacher could potentially call a Green students on their stuff and potentially keep them moving onto 2nd Tier?? It may work best if they didn’t call themselves their Teacher ☺

“IF CONSCIOUSNESS CAN ONLY BE AWARE OF ITS OWN LEVEL AND THOSE PRECEDING IT.”… I was under the impression that 1st Tier doesn’t work that way. Orange thinks that Green is before it, Amber thinks that Orange and Green are before it. Their own views are the only right way in 1st Tier.

Firstly, in discussing moving Students through the Stages (i.e. Transformation being the ideal purpose of having a Teacher) I’ve heard Ken mention several times that no one knows why some people transform and some don’t. The only tool that has evidence that it influences transformation is meditation and that was found to assist on average but it’s not guaranteed. Some people would be in ‘ideal’ situations to transform and don’t, then others who you wouldn’t think would transform and do. Even verbal commitment may not be an indicator.

I don’t think full exposure to the next level of consciousness is a requirement. It may appear to help and be theorized to help, but once again, it’s not guaranteed

I personally don’t think Teachers NEED to be 2nd Tier or even Green to have the student move to 2nd Tier. Especially if what they’re teaching is referring to States of consciousness rather than Stages. Obviously it would be ideal if they had a COG of 2nd Tier and it would help the student if they were aware of Stages but not an ‘ethical imperative’. How would that be upheld if people in 1st Tier can’t see it even if they tried?

To give an example of what a Teacher whose COG is 1st Tier can offer. They may make it so apparent in their teachings (without seeing themselves) their own short comings in their way of being. Therefore being an example of ‘what not to be’. My own personal example was my movement from Amber to Orange as “I didn’t want to be like my Mum”. I know there’s always a lot more to it, but looking back, that was my driving force. Until then, I was a ‘good girl’ that always did the right thing. However, I started see the painful shortcomings of being motivated by guilt and something didn’t make sense to me hence the questioning that resulting in a movement to Orange thinking. Granted, my Mum isn’t a Guru, but at the time, I chose her and my Amber Netball coach as my ‘Teachers’.

I've heard KW mention that to be 'enlightened' doesn't mean that you have all Lines of your psychograph at Indigo nor second Tier. That's an unrealistic goal- I think he referred to it as 'Superman' if I remember correctly. When being a teacher, 2nd Tier Cognition would be a value but not necessarily essential. It all comes down to a definition of enlightenment (experiencing Nondual states or more?), what students have to gain from teachers and do teachers have to be enlightened?

My understanding of this is that it's up to the student to decipher what is up for them at the time in choosing a Teacher.

Now referring back to your initial question… I personally believe Personal Integrity is number one. This doesn’t make you a ‘hero’. It just means you aren’t consciously killing yourself. If the only way that you keep ‘relationships’ is to withhold a part of your Being, then is that worth the ‘relationship’ even if it has taken years to develop?

I hope it didn't sound too arrogant. That's my understanding at this point in time.

Kelly
:)

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A clever ironic quote is best here... instead I'll smile :)

Good day, Kelly ~

To clarify just what's being tossed out with the bathwater when it comes to Amber of any other level for that matter, it's the pathological pitfalls that, in a manner of speaking, are being tossed.  And perhaps 'throwing' or 'tossing' are not really accurate descriptions of what needs to be done.  Integration of those pathologies and potential pitfalls is really the work that is needed. So instead of tossing all of Amber out with the bath, maybe what is needed is a heightened sensibility as to just what it is about Amber tht is holding us back, and from that perspective we can "let go" of (throw out) the limited beliefs and assumptions that any and every level can have as part of its package, and move on.

Pitfalls of  Amber-minded Consciousness

Excessive authoritarianism-fascism and abuses of power
Fundamental religious conflict. Opression of rigid class system
and fixed roles. Misogyny. People are cogs in a huge machine.
Closed minds-if it's not part of the traditional written dogma
then it's not to be considered.  Lack of joy-rewards only in the
after-life. Identification with nation-faith; "we are righteous
and they are evil."

On the issue concerning levels of consciousness and the recognition that we only know as much as the level we are on, including those levels that precede the current one, because someone is at Amber can mean that they won't accept any other value meme as being more inclusive or more comprehensive than their own does not necessarily mean that those who have gone beyond Amber can't see the limitations and pitfalls of those preceding levels.  The pitfalls that I may not see are those that I have yet to objectify and integrate into my conscious awareness.  This is where shadow work can be of immense benefit because such work creates greater internal space, thus allowing us to move into these more integral levels of being.

What got me started with this thread in the first place was what I saw as the downright and utter nonsense of the Reverend Wright "song and dance" that occurred a couple of weeks ago here in the U.S., and how deceptively simple it might be for some powerful demagogue to abusively use power to influence the political arena.  As it turns out, one political pundit who is highly regarded and whose name I do not recall saw this bombastic display as an attempt on Wright's part to influence the democratic vote by sending those votes to Clinton.  He does not want Barach Obama to get the nomination because he thinks that Obama is better than the platform upon which he has chosen to stand, and it would be better if Obama lost the election so he will not lose his soul in the flotsam and jetsam of Amberican Politics.  Apparently, Wright already sees Clinton as having made her Faustian Bargain, and it's too late for him or anyone else to do anything about it.

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The yoga of light and sound is really only one event. It's the frequency of their vibrations that is different.