Am unable to access the webstream for the live call, May 12, '07.

I had the same thing happen to me jondavi but then noticed this call starts at 12 Mountain time, you and I were to early...

Dear Joel,

I wanted to express my love and appreciation both for you and for Ken, in your discussion about Spinoza.  Joel, you were very brave to come forth and do what I’m pretty sure lots of folks want and need to do with Ken, who are highly likely to get your view broken into pieces (for the time being), to be rendered silenced, and perhaps, if you’re like me, to go blank, until you get time to mull and recollect, by which time, it’s weeks later—our two weeks to his 2 seconds.  Very annoying.  And totally magical.  Unbelievable.  Where else can we get that??????????????????????

Dearest Ken, thank you for going ahead and engaging Joel, trusting him and believing in him enough to be a person with you, and not fragile.  

Ken, wrestling with you, as you must SO well know, is the only way, sometimes for us to figure out where our views don’t hold water.  Our pails break open, and intuitively, we rebuild them to hold the additional water you’ve put in them.  Where else will we get this???????

And Joel, and Joanne (me), can we feel how our shadows, as well as our information models, get challenged so well?

I hope these conversations with Ken will continue to deepen.  My blessings and support to you both and the risk-taking.

MUCH LOVE AND APPRECIATION (and need),
Joanne
NYC

P.S.  I appreciate that it was easier this time to find the link to get on.

P.P.S.  I appreciated the increased "meat per minute" in the conversation (more meaty).

Ooooooh, when TOC2 comes, we're gonna just die...

...and another thing.  I've just entered some of those increasingly intense near-causal states, for the first time.  I'm so happy, because I SO didn't want to meditate for 20 years and feel nothing.  Some regular person said that if you're willing to put thousands of dollars and several years into different spiritual teachers until you find what works for you, you're highly likely to start going into this place.

These states, and combining them with trying to grow and deep and real as possible, as a person, loving better, being one with others (not in dependency), etc., these together are Ken's model, and the runway for us that is supra-rational.  

Positive Psychology lists all these great qualities that are part of this picture.  But if Seligman and Peterson (and Gardner and Sternberg?) don't actually enter altruism and creativity and wisdom and such, and find themselves moving and then living in the spiritual states, they can't research it.  

I still need to understand post-con development better.

For what it's worth.

Bestest,
Joanne

Thanks so much, Joanne, for your comments.  It was a fun and intense discussion, but I am now ready for round two.  I have, I believe, countered all of Ken's objections.  So, stay tuned...


warmly,
me